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Hermit Road 6:09 Sat Jan 31
I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

He's got to go in the summer, there can't be much of a chance of Sullivan putting up with his profligate, negative, arrogant shit for another multi million pound contract. The football he presides over is an abomination. It is all about damage limitation and battering defences down.

If I was Sullivan I'd be tempted to pull the iceberg out from under him now. We're safe but deteriorating due to a thoroughly defeatist mentality. Its fucking miserable to watch. And every time we start with Nolan I want to punch myself in the head until I'm unconscious.

Please please please don't let this dinosaur be in charge next year.

ironsofcanada 11:29 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

stewie griffin 11:17 Mon Feb 2

I agree with that.

I guess I was answering you comment that he "abandoned the system."

stewie griffin 11:17 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

I don't think I've mentioned Sakho/Valencia/Carroll. Its a non-argument for me. Horses for courses, where different opposition will suit different partnerships.

The key thing for me is Downing. If I'm honest, I think he's a poor/average winger, but he's been exceptional centrally, and as soon as he is moved back out to the wing we look far less effective.

ironsofcanada 11:11 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

stewie griffin 10:42 Mon Feb 2

I wasn't argue about the system at Crystal Place, I was just pointing out that you left it out.

But address the other points, please. How there was not a change in personnel fitness (other than their own) which prompted Sakho and Valencia's starting and those player were not left out - they were unavailable when the "system was changed."

And there have not been "a few" won without them starting together.

The record from mid Sept to early November with them starting together (4-1-2) is pretty similar to that from the end of November to through December with Carroll starting (4-2-1.)

I would look to the midfield instead.

We generally see what we want to see, I just try and step back once in while.

ATBOG 11:07 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

Sven Roeder 8:57 Mon Feb 2
"When we lost last season we always got a PLETHORA of stats from the big man about penalty box entries etc when he was blaming the players for not executing his plans.

I don't understand why any journalist armed with Nolan stats doesn't quiz him on what he is for."

Probably because the journo's & pundits in this country consider themselves to be part of one big football fraternity closed shop, where they all look after each other & spout the same old cliched bollocks. Compare this to somewhere like Spain, where they analyse things from a more independent point of view & you see why someone like mourinho was desperate to get back here.

under the thumb 10:57 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

ironsofcanada 10:07 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

I think that's the most sensible post I have ever seen from you! It sums up everything about the current state of affairs.

crapnotshit 10:45 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

Fuck off IOC, you're just out to rescue your own stupid idea!
BFS is shit, FACT!

stewie griffin 10:42 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

The Palace away game, we played with Downing on the wing and Zarate in behind, so it was the same system.
We won. Just like we've won a couple of games since we returned to his favoured system. Just like we won enough games to stay up last year, and in all likelihood would do if we'd played the same system for 38 games this season.
Doesn't mean its our best option, and doesn't mean it gets the best out of our players.

ironsofcanada 10:33 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

stewie griffin 10:17 Mon Feb 2

Did he really abandon it willingly? Far few injuries in there if you actually look at it lead to the change of personnel. Both Sakho and Valencia were out remember.

(And Nolan took a while to get back into the side when back as well and longer to start. He was back end of Sept and did not start until end of Nov. The question is why has he been still?)

On the first part, you forgot Crystal Palace and the change had very little to do with injuries. Nolan was injured after the first game, the majority of poor games you mentioned were without him. Allardyce is a conservative manager and it took a while to trust and get "match fit" our new signings, if you actually look at it.

j.a 10:32 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

It's quite simple to a lot of us really.

Going by our seasons performances so far, we play better with Valencia and Sakho up front. In fact, better than we have done for years.

Football isn't about putting the best individuals on the pitch.

And regarding the point about teams working us out, BFS changed it long before teams had a chance. And it wasn't changed back due to the fear of teams finding us out, it was because he had certain players back to enable him to revert to the slow, predictable shit.

Also, there is no agenda regarding Nolan. He has been consistently shit for a long time. His performances range from non existent, to average (rarely).
I'd be surprised if there's a worse first team regular in the league.

Hermit Road 10:31 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

Stewie has hit the nail on the head there.

Those first few games were as depressingly familiar as the games since Christmas.

ajc123 10:23 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

And it's naive to think you are going to win anything playing so 1 dimensionally. Ioc you must see that? Allardyce is proof of that, never having won anything in his whole career. What we have is a manager schooled in physical but limited 3rd Division football and grid iron tactics, and a rejection of anything modern that existed previously at the club. And his old fashioned approach is covered up by a bit of PR about 'science', 'stats' and a fetish for Fifa type software.

crapnotshit 10:17 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

I respect loyalty a lot too.
I'm loyal towards my assumptions towards the three musketeers BFS, No!an and Carroll.
BFS is a shit manager, Nolan is a shit player and Carroll is a ponytail cunt.

stewie griffin 10:17 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

Think it’s a stretch to suggest it had ‘nothing’ to do with the manager – but is worth remembering our good form was as much a result of circumstance as anything else.
Everyone seems to ‘remember’ we started the season well. We didn’t. We lost our first 3 home games, against Spurs, Southampton and Sheffield United; playing largely the same brand of football that we played last season, in the same shape, and with performances not dissimilar to those since Christmas.
It was the away game at Hull – and a variety of injuries and loss of form – that made us change our shape and personnel.

That said, BFS wouldn’t be the first or last manager to stumble across his best side and a winning formula by virtue of circumstance, but I’m not sure I can remember anyone abandoning it in quite the same way. Perplexing.

Willtell 10:15 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

ioc
You miss the point. WH played the best football for years when we played Valencia and Sakho up front playing on full backs rather than CBs prompted by Downing at the point of the diamond. This was during the period Nolan and Carroll were injured.

We are now drifting with poor performances. What are the coincidences? Carroll and Nolan are back. Downing is frequently moved wide and we are again humping the ball at a target man.

You don't need to be a genius coach to realise that there is a theme here...

ironsofcanada 10:07 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

Anyone who thinks that Allardyce was "shocked" by how we played at the beginning of the season or who things we could have stayed top four playing the exact same players in the exact same system is so naive it is silly. Or can't accept that things are not black and white and they might have been a bit wrong about things. I have been wrong lots, I wanted him gone at the end of last year.

Good teams get to know players and systems and adapt. That was going to happen even if we didn't have some disruptions in personnel. But to pretend our success at the beginning of the season had nothing to with the manager so plain stupid.

Just like pretending things are okay now. Allardyce is a conservative manager and in times of less success he seems even more so. We are seeing that now. (Though I was told by same people crowing loud and proud again now in seasons past that he would never play two strikers, which even away to Liverpool he has done this season.)

I respect loyalty a lot, it is far to rare in today's world. So I forgave the Nolan thing longer than most. Now it frustrates me a lot. I don't understand it. I wanted Noble Amalfie Song and Downing in midfield, it did very well against them last time and gave us our best midfield passing display of the season in my opinion. But to be balanced as the game progressed Nolan had a bad game again but Amalfitano was worse by a good measure. The fact that people will not see things like that is prove of their bias to me.

Similar is the current Carroll situation. Because he is an Allardyce signing and people have spouted so much negative about him in the past, they won't admit that he has been our most effective striker for the last couple months. He has been so much better than Valencia it is clear to any neutral/commentator I have read or talked to. When he and Sakho have been able to play together their have been some very nice displays and a fair few goals. But lets throw the baby out with the hating the manager/being frusterated with Nolan bath water.

To think that playing Sakho and Valencia together again is some panacea which I have seen posted numerous times, you show the height of naivety or bias. I will welcome it if it works again but Valencia has not shown me a lot lately and again other teams learn things.

Just try and thing about some of these things rationally. I don't get the Nolan thing but I think that wanting our most effective striker to be out injured for ever as it suits your agenda is as blindly biased as starting Nolan.

Just maybe have some balance.

ajc123 10:00 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

What we need is for someone to take those stats questions to one of those supporters consultation meetings. I don't know when they last held one though or who goes. The other alternative is to post it on wh till I die and ask Iain Dale to take it up.

crapnotshit 9:30 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

Isn't it funny that the last straw of fight to keep BFS is always "who else can take over"!

The Kronic 9:23 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

Gentile 11:42

That's what the fat cunt's apologists like you will do next should we carry on as we are and slide down the table - kiss his chubby arse for avoiding relegation.

It's no coincidence that his admirers are as unambitious as he is.

Feed Me Chicken 9:04 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

You know what else, we will probably lose Song over this aswell, he seemed well happy a few weeks ago but Sam's shit tactics and preferential treatment of certain players may well make Song look elsewhere next season now.

terry-h 9:03 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

The way we started the season came as a complete shock to Allardyce. It's not the way he wants to play, and he couldn't wait for Nolan and Carroll to come back. Sakho was not his signing, he didn't want him, and he even told Sullivan there was no need to improve his original contract. Valencia has lost confidence with his manager's demands, and there is a danger Sakho will go the same way.
Things have started to go downhill and Allardyce couldn't give a shit. That's why Noble is pissed off, and Amalfitano is also showing signs of wanting away.
Please God the two Daves can also see what is going on before it's too late.

Sven Roeder 8:57 Mon Feb 2
Re: I'd love it if Allardyce got the sack.

When we lost last season we always got a PLETHORA of stats from the big man about penalty box entries etc when he was blaming the players for not executing his plans.
I don't understand why any journalist armed with Nolan stats doesn't quiz him on what he is for.

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